You read French? (Well, Belgian, actually -- I'm hoping the etiquette's fairly universal.)
Ironically I ended up dropping the line that I was doing all the research for, at least partly because I couldn't find the answer, although partly because it slowed down the pacing. I couldn't establish whether Christine would sign herself as 'Vicomtesse de Chagny' after marriage; there's very little on signatures, and the only material I could find (on a genealogy forum) suggested that men at least didn't use their titles, or even their particule unless preceded by one or more Christian names. Which makes a sort of gut sense, because it's analogous to English usage: Ralph Monterecy, Duke of Bicester, doesn't sign himself "Duke of Bicester". He signs himself as "Bicester" if using his title, or "Monterecy", or "Ralph Monterecy" if he needs to distinguish himself from other members of his family. Noble surnames are, in origin, placenames, so the 'of' is extraneous when it comes to identity. Raoul of Chagny is a member of the Chagny family, who are the lords of Chagny.
The particule business worries me a bit; when people are referring to Raoul by name rather than by title (which is almost all the time), I already know that they address him as monsieur de Chagny rather than monsieur le vicomte, since because of the way French honorifics work this would be basically the equivalent of a servant addressing him as Sir. But when they're addressing him by surname alone, e.g. friends or superior officerts, do they call him "Chagny" or "De Chagny"? I've definitely come across the latter usage and assumed it was universal, but apparently that only applies when the name begins with something other than 'de', e.g. D'Artois, D'Artagnan, du Vallon, des Sablières. And Aymar de la Rocheterie is definitely La Rocheterie in conversation, come to think of it...
It's really not a problem from a practical point of view -- if I'm going to change it, I just have to remember to make the alteration consistently while typing up, like changing Lagarde to Laporte. If I had already typed the manuscript it would be very slightly more complicated (since I couldn't do a global replace) but rather faster procedure ;-p
The only question is whether I *am* going to change it or not...
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2020-02-02 02:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-02-03 03:06 am (UTC)(Well, Belgian, actually -- I'm hoping the etiquette's fairly universal.)
Ironically I ended up dropping the line that I was doing all the research for, at least partly because I couldn't find the answer, although partly because it slowed down the pacing. I couldn't establish whether Christine would sign herself as 'Vicomtesse de Chagny' after marriage; there's very little on signatures, and the only material I could find (on a genealogy forum) suggested that men at least didn't use their titles, or even their particule unless preceded by one or more Christian names. Which makes a sort of gut sense, because it's analogous to English usage: Ralph Monterecy, Duke of Bicester, doesn't sign himself "Duke of Bicester". He signs himself as "Bicester" if using his title, or "Monterecy", or "Ralph Monterecy" if he needs to distinguish himself from other members of his family. Noble surnames are, in origin, placenames, so the 'of' is extraneous when it comes to identity. Raoul of Chagny is a member of the Chagny family, who are the lords of Chagny.
The particule business worries me a bit; when people are referring to Raoul by name rather than by title (which is almost all the time), I already know that they address him as monsieur de Chagny rather than monsieur le vicomte, since because of the way French honorifics work this would be basically the equivalent of a servant addressing him as Sir. But when they're addressing him by surname alone, e.g. friends or superior officerts, do they call him "Chagny" or "De Chagny"? I've definitely come across the latter usage and assumed it was universal, but apparently that only applies when the name begins with something other than 'de', e.g. D'Artois, D'Artagnan, du Vallon, des Sablières. And Aymar de la Rocheterie is definitely La Rocheterie in conversation, come to think of it...
no subject
Date: 2020-02-03 01:24 pm (UTC)That sounds like a nuisance. :(
no subject
Date: 2020-02-05 10:50 pm (UTC)The only question is whether I *am* going to change it or not...