igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2023-06-15 08:34 pm
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Name edit

I changed the name of the old midwife in What's In a Name? from Mère Mégane ("Old Mother Mégane") to Albine, after discovering that people were interpreting this as an anachronistic attempt to call the character 'Meg-short-for-Megan' :-O

To be honest I don't know *where* I got the name from (unlikely to have been from modern Americanised pop culture as I don't read that sort of French!) Possibly subconsciously from Messrs Renault, although I would guess that I was probably simply looking for a rare name -- e.g. not drawing from the standard Phantom writers' limited female palette of Marie/Louise/Jeanne/Blanche/Angelique! -- that would alliterate...
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2023-01-20 12:52 am

The start of a story

Well, I've actually started on the crackfic prompt about Perrette's daughter :-)
And exactly as predicted, it has almost immediately turned from any sort of attempt at humour into a perfectly straight R/C fic, which is what almost invariably happens as soon as you get inside Raoul's head -- apparently the boy simply can't think about anything else! Read more... )
Leather journal )

NB: the bias binding on the neck of my pyjamas has worked beautifully. I have had no further discomfort at all, and my hemming survived the washing machine in perfect condition! Thank goodness for that.
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2022-11-10 10:22 am
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Honorine

I have just (three years too late!) remembered that the female equivalent of Honoré is "Honorine" (which explains why there was no "Honore" :-p) Of course I could theoretically change Mlle Gilberte Lancard back to Honorine Lancard, but she feels like a Gilberte to me by this point...
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2022-10-05 02:43 am

Miss Daaé

I have decided to standardise -- three years after initially worrying about it! -- on 'Miss Daaé' rather than Mademoiselle Daaé for Christine, save for those occasions when she is addressed simply as 'mademoiselle'. Perhaps not entirely logical in conjunction with the various other usages of titles (Monsieur, Madame, monsieur le Marquis), but it was the variant that sounded better in context. I can always alter it the other way if essential.

(Noting the change here for my own future reference!)

Chapter 26 )
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2022-09-18 01:56 am
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Halmstad already exists

I don't believe it. Apparently I was a little too good at making up credible names for Scandinavian coastal communities -- there actually *is* a port of Halmstad, and not only that but it is a major Swedish city which people may well have have heard of, and which is located in quite a different region from my fictional Norwegian 'Halmstad' :-(

(The only reason I found this out was that I noticed I had changed the name to "Halvestad" halfway through Chapter 24 -- unfortunately I subsequently evidently completely forgot not only that I had done so, but the reason for the change. Like Tolkien, I tend not to go back in my manuscripts and alter earlier versions of names, but generally carry any changes forward from that point, and this has come back to bite me!)

Oh well, the ability to alter this sort of thing is one of the benefits of not publishing-as-you-go. I should probably warn my beta-readers, although I do wonder if they would actually pick up on the discrepancy :-(
(It's not really fair to ask people to read with an eye to continuity when it is up to three months between chapters...)

[Edit: "Alvestad" might be better than "Halvestad", which is Dutch!]
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2021-03-20 09:29 pm
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'Monsieur' redux

On the subject of the Monsieur/Messieurs confusion, I've just started reading Hugo's "The Toilers of the Sea", and was very confused to discover a character who is referred to consistently as "Mess Lethierry", rendered literally as such. I couldn't tell if it was his name or his honorific, and it didn't look like either. I even went to the lengths of locating and downloading a French edition of the novel to see whether the 19th-century translator had become confused and/or altered the punctuation, but the name was printed exactly the same.

Read more... )

So 'Mess' is an abbreviation in origin, apparently standing for 'Messire', but in this case being used by Hugo to impart a bit of local colour into the setting of his book. And apparently the 'mes' in 'Messire' is *not* plural, but is old French, from the Latin meos — so while 'messieurs=plural, monsieur=singular' is a handy mnemonic to remember which is which, it's not actually the origin of the words. 'Sire' is the oldest term, and 'sieur' and 'seigneur' derive from oblique cases, all stemming ultimately from the Latin senior (in the days when being old was regarded as a qualification for high position rather than a sign that your knowledge was out of date!)

Presumably "mon seigneur" and "mon sieur" arose on the French mainland at a later point, when 'mes' had been replaced by 'mon' as a male possessive, but 'messire' as a title had already fossilised...
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2020-10-26 04:09 pm

Baronial names

I think I've finished my first chapter of the "Raoul's wife" story, although I still haven't decided on a definite name for it. Read more... )Meanwhile I'm busy trying to establish a credible surname for Hertha's family — a quick glance at Wikipedia yields the rather unpromising information that the number of Jews in Vienna actually ballooned after 1867, so whatever her father's reason for coming to Paris in the late 1870s it certainly wasn't because the environment at home had become unwelcoming. Fortunately the plot doesn't actually require that...

I wanted him to be a Baron, which seemed fairly generic and an acceptable level of alliance, and Wikipedia does at least confirm that this is an appropriate title for a self-made family. They don't have to have a title at all, but I feel that marrying a banker's daughter would probably be more socially acceptable if she could be deemed foreign nobility rather than simply filthy rich.

I think they're probably not actually Jewish but descended from Jews or converted a generation or so back, because the number of actual noble Jewish families in Vienna was very small and verifiable, whereas the number of Austrian nobles and quasi-nobles who were allied with Jewish families at some point in their ancestry was high: Austrian History Yearbook. I don't think the story is going to go into any of this in any detail, but I ought to get it straight in my head.

Other useful lists of surnames:

igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2020-05-10 03:45 pm
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Ellipse de la particule nobliaire

Ellipse de la particule nobiliaire

This is the information I needed. I just didn't know what it was called so that I could look it up :-)Read more... )

Which, I'm afraid, means that Lancard should probably be addressing the Vicomte de Chagny (and differing capitalization rules between French and English on things like titles and street-names is a mine-field I have barely bothered to note) as "Chagny" by surname or "Lieutenant de Chagny" by (possible) profession, despite the fact that it sounds wrong. (I wonder if part of the problem is that it's short but not actually a single syllable?)

Somehow I can imagine Philippe's contemporaries -- his fellow-aristocrats -- addressing him casually as 'Chagny', just as the Earl of Essex might converse with 'old Norfolk', but for a commoner, who is, after all, Raoul's superior officer by seniority, to do it to Raoul -- who is not the holder of the family title but only a younger brother, and whose identity is not synonymous with that of his estates -- feels derogatory :-(
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2020-04-15 02:59 pm
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The particule question

(Cross-posted from a comment on [community profile] vicomte_de_chagny, since I know I'll never look for it there, and had enough trouble finding the reference to material that only existed in an untagged comment in my own blog...)

One interesting thing about Leroux's reference to the initials RC carved into the wall of the Communards' dungeon is how it relates to the particule question -- it implies that, to a Frenchman, Raoul's initials are self-evidently RC, not (as I've seen in fanfics where a handkerchief embroidered with Raoul's initials forms part of the plot) RdC, or even R.D.C.
(I wondered if I ought to drop the particule on typing up, but having now done five chapters -- 15,000 words/31 pages of manuscript/Plot Point Four -- I've stuck with having Lancard refer to him as 'de Chagny". Having him address Raoul as 'Chagny' just seemed rude and weird when I was typing it....)
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2019-11-01 03:28 pm
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List of names used, Part II

And here as a placeholder is the list of names used in the first two-thirds of the Swedish story, excluding the final third which is currently drying out under a heavy weight after having replacement endpapers glued in :-p

Full list of names in the Swedish story (unless I introduce any more OCs in the final chapters!)Read more... )
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2019-09-23 04:15 pm
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List of names used

For my reference: a list of all the non-canonical character names (and some other things) appearing in my historical fiction, in the hopes of avoiding future repetition. Currently complete up to the end of 2023, excluding the vast cast in the still-infuriatingly-unnamed Swedish story.
Read more... )
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2019-09-14 12:10 am
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By any other name

Unbelievably, after my problems with Lancard and Lagarde and sister ClĂ©mence, I've now discovered that, having bestowed the name Bajet upon the senior servant at the château de Chagny, I'd already used it for the name of a sailor at the end of plot point four. Since it's well over a year since I wrote that scene (and the line in question was actually an edited interpolation), I can't imagine where my subconscious dragged the name up from.

Rather than try to come up with another random sailor's name, it probably makes more sense to re-use one of the future survivors for this bit-part role (very, very 'bit' -- he just gets yelled at to fetch the surgeon). Of course, at the time when this chapter was written none of them actually existed yet... I've gone for Boudon ('the other big one'), who is the least well characterised and generally gets the least to do.
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2019-08-11 10:07 pm

Sisters' names

One of Lancard's sisters has finally acquired a name and a bit of character (he talks about her briefly).

Unfortunately she has already been through three different names and is onto her fourth :-( Read more... )
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
2015-08-03 10:27 am

Nineteenth-century French female names

[livejournal.com profile] wild_concerto's reference list of typical 19th century French female names: http://cosette-giry.tumblr.com/post/124509583587/french-female-names-in-the-19th-century

pasted from Tumblr )