igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
Igenlode Wordsmith ([personal profile] igenlode) wrote2015-08-29 11:15 pm

Frozen - Hans

Apparently my sympathy for the devil instincts are still alive and kicking, since my immediate reaction to finally watching "Frozen" was "Prince Hans simply doesn't make sense" :-p

I could swallow Hans as a weak opportunist who suddenly realises that this is his big chance (the heir to the throne is dying after their hasty engagement and the Queen has exiled herself, leaving him as effective regent). But that's not what we're told. We're asked to believe that he has somehow been scheming for this all along and that everything he has done has been with this specific aim in view, which is inconsistent with what we see in the rest of the film.

After all, it's Anna who runs into him -- he doesn't set out to court her. He doesn't even know who she is, and yet he's clearly attracted to her from the start. (Again, this might make sense as opportunism -- he's susceptible to a pretty face, and then delighted to find out that the girl on whom he has made such a good impression is actually a highly-desirable marriage partner -- but as an evil scheme it's hopeless.)

And if, as he later claims, he wanted Elsa dead from the start (since he hasn't a hope of marrying her), then he has no need to insist during their expedition on the North Mountain that she should not be harmed, never mind taking active steps to save her life... let alone trying to save her from damning herself by using her powers for murder, which is an act of no benefit to anyone save Elsa herself. He doesn't need to impress Anna at this point (who in all probability is already dead in any case): all he has to do is allow events to take their natural course and let the sorceress queen get lynched by her outraged subjects.

Indeed, he doesn't need to send out an expedition to rescue Anna at all, since he is already Regent and can only benefit from her death -- nor go on it himself ("I have to look after the people!"), thus compounding the irresponsible error that first Elsa and then Anna have made in running out on their kingdom. If he is a cynical schemer, he has the perfect excuse to send out his minions to ensure that neither of the heirs to Arendelle come back -- he doesn't need to endanger his own life to save Anna, let alone Elsa. None of these actions make any sense if reinterpreted in retrospect: if Hans's apparent motives are not genuine, then the script is cheating.

And as a villain, he's a very bad one-- as in, very bad at it.

He doesn't even need to refuse to kiss Anna: if he knows that he is not her true love then he can simply kiss her in full view of the Court and act devastated when the 'superstition' mysteriously fails to work and she dies anyway. He could sit by her side and watch her die in absolute safety, thus winning sympathy (and making sure that she really does die -- he can even give matters a little extra push if necessary).

The whole 'revealing his evil plans' scene makes no sense at all, and frankly feels like a retcon inserted for some reason -- I'm reminded, inevitably, of Erik-fans' attempts to 'monster' Raoul's actions in order to make their desired hero look better in comparison, where said actions are very obviously being gratuitously and implausibly twisted in support of a plot interpretation that isn't upheld by the facts. If Hans is a villain, why does he act clean against his own supposed interests for three-quarters of the film? This isn't a clever twist -- it's total lack of plot development.

Again, I'm reminded of Andrew Lloyd Webber suddenly having Raoul start acting like a stereotypical badfic villain and Christine suddenly declare a passionate attachment to the Phantom in "Love Never Dies" with no reason given: Hans could have been given foreshadowing as an out-and-out villain, he could have been given credible motives as a conflicted opportunist, or he could even have been a tragically misguided hero who doesn't realise that the reason why his kiss fails to save Anna is that she has fallen in love with someone else, and rushes out to avenge her by killing Elsa. Just giving him a radical character change in the final scenes and announcing that all his charming and indeed admirable behaviour has been a rather incompetent lie doesn't cut the mustard where writing a plausible villain is concerned.

Indeed, it leaves the viewer with the impression that the script had written itself into a hole and didn't know how to get itself out again.

I can see why little girls adore the film, with its theme of loyalty between sisters and message that 'true love' doesn't have to involve romance (though I for one was frankly anticipating this revelation to come at the point where Olaf sacrifices himself by lighting a roaring fire for Anna and telling her that she is worth melting for: I assumed that was going to be the big twist! Why doesn't a snowman's devotion count?) But the message I'm getting is that the writers simply didn't care enough to make Prince Hans a credible human being... which is bad enough in a minor character, but disastrous in one whose flaws are made to be pivotal to the climax of the film :-(

Also, it instantly enlists me on Hans' side :-p

pedanther: (Default)

[personal profile] pedanther 2015-08-31 05:19 am (UTC)(link)
If he is a cynical schemer, he has the perfect excuse to send out his minions to ensure that neither of the heirs to Arendelle come back

If he had minions. Which he doesn't.

That's actually kind of interesting, because it's pretty unique for a Disney villain. And on one level that's probably why: if he had minions, the audience would know he was a villain.

But it also ties into his whole motivation for villainy: He wants power, and doesn't have any. Hans starts out with no support base whatever, and accumulates power over the course of the movie by persuading people that giving it to him would be a good idea. He's not just trying to impress Anna; he's trying to impress everybody. At least until he's got a firm enough grip on power that they can't take it off him again.

He goes after Anna personally because he's got no minions to do it for him, but also because he's building a legend. If he brings her back alive, his approval rating goes up; if she dies out in the snow somewhere, well, at least he tried.

On the other hand, he can't stand by and let Elsa get killed in front of him, because that's not what the kind of guy he wants people to think he is would do. That kind of guy would bring Elsa back alive and insist she be given a fair hearing -- and if the fair hearing never happens because a fatal accident befalls her when nobody's looking, well, at least he tried. (Also, are they still thinking at that point that they need her to bring summer back? I can't remember.)

I do think that the "Oh Anna" scene is a misstep; it would definitely have been smarter for him to wait lovingly by her side while she perished, for all the reasons you say. It would even fit the narrative he's constucting: he couldn't save her, but at least he tried.

(I wonder if there's an extra-textual reason why he needed to not kiss Anna -- there might be rules saying the princess can't kiss the villain in a Disney film, or something -- but in that case the writers shouldn't have put him in a position where kissing Anna was the obvious thing to do.)
pedanther: (Default)

[personal profile] pedanther 2015-08-31 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)
When it came to minions, I wasn't counting the fact that he was de facto ruler of Arendelle because he was holding that position on account of Arendelle thinking of him as The Noble Prince Whom Our Princess Loves And Trusts, and he had to keep that narrative running; it still doesn't provide him with anybody who would be willing to hunt down Anna on his behalf.

You might be right that the crowd would have been in favour of something happening to Elsa, though. At this point I think I'm going to have to concede that it's been too long since I've seen the movie, and I'm not sufficiently sure of my position to keep arguing it.

(I do want to point out, though, that twice now you've said that preventing Elsa from murdering someone was of benefit to nobody but Elsa and maybe Anna. It seems to me that at the very least it would have been of some benefit to the person who didn't get murdered...)
butterflydreaming: "Cris", in blocks with a blinking cat (Default)

[personal profile] butterflydreaming 2015-09-01 05:18 am (UTC)(link)
I feel much the same, and since I've been writing a long fic for Frozen, his characterization problem just becomes more unbelievable. I think what happened was that the finished story came together late in the production. Earlier versions had Elsa as the villain (and not Anna's sister at all) that Anna would somehow redeem. I don't know if Hans was a prince-in-distress or always a schemer.

I do know that when I first saw the film, at the reveal I lost suspension of disbelief. It came out of nowhere, and rewatches of the movie don't reveal effective foreshadowing. We have been told that he's a sociopath, but... to me it is very much a problem in the narrative.
butterflydreaming: "Cris", in blocks with a blinking cat (Default)

[personal profile] butterflydreaming 2015-09-01 10:32 pm (UTC)(link)

an attempt by the writers to deceive the audience rather than the other characters

I felt this was exactly what they did.

Frozen gets praised for subverting Disney Princess Movie tropes, but it is still a Disney (Princess) movie, so when they have opportunities to do some great stuff with the story, they just don't. I would have liked to see the "true love's kiss" that didn't work -- but then, the princess must only be kissed by the true prince! We can't have a sullied princess!

I'm not satisfied with "Hans is a sociopath." I do accept Hans as a sadist, however. The evil monologue is entirely to make Anna suffer. I like to think that he was about to go through with the kiss, but being fairly certain it would not work, he stopped at the last moment instead of laughing. No, I think he may have even been a little afraid that a kiss might work. What does he know of magic, after all? I also think that he could have accepted marrying Anna in order to get a place in Arendelle, but when Elsa's magic was revealed, he felt -- but didn't show -- the same revulsion to sorcery as did Wessleton. Being a bigot and a sadist would be villainy enough for me.